The Lost World

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I'd say there'll be no I.D. people around by then. Evolution at work, you know...
I'm pretty sure the banana has been bred to its current form. Didn't they used to have seeds? Almost positive that primeval bananas were not so pleasant.

Creationism is hampered by biblical literalism. Science and faith can coexist and mutually inform one another, but not if either side adopts the same closed approach.

Literalists make non-believers laugh at us.

Basically, if scientists believe only what they can see and creationists believe only what they read in the Bible then both sides will miss the point.
I'm pretty sure the banana has been bred to its current form. Didn't they used to have seeds? Almost positive that primeval bananas were not so pleasant.
Yep - lots and lots of seeds. The domestication of the banana as we know it is even relatively recent. On a scary note, the most commonly used banana (the Cavendish) is threatened by a fungus that could wipe it out entirely. Not so bad, you say? It is when you remember that bananas and their varietals are the fourth most used crop in the world.

Creationism is hampered by biblical literalism.
Any "science" that starts from a supernatural premise is hampered by it's own inherent contradiction.

Literalists make nonbelievers laugh at us.
And quite a few believers as well...

Basically, if scientists believe only what they can see and creationists believe only what they read in the Bible then both sides will miss the point.
Scientists don't "believe" when it comes to science. We "understand" or "know", which are very different from "belief". Believing means that you accept, with or without proof, even in the face of contradiction [1]. Knowing something means that you have witnessed it in action and that the results would have been operator independent [2]. Understanding means that you know the mechanisms by which something happened and, in many cases, can cause it to repeat at will [3].

Many scientists see no problem with religion, per se, merely with some of the more extreme believers [4]. Many are devout Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, Muslims, Baha'i, Jews, Hindi, Buddhists, or whatever. Unfortunately, the extremes tend to dominate in the discussions, much to the disgust of those of us in the middle.

John
"When evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will evolve!"

[1] For example, I personally believe that people are good. This is not a scientific belief, it is a personal bias.

[2] Always excepting the special cases where the operator is part of the experiment, such as psychology, ethnology, or anthropology.

[3] Always excepting those special cases where the mechanisms or the outcome is too subtle (e.g., rain drop paths), too strong (e.g., volcanoes), or too stochastic (e.g., radioactive decay of individual atoms), to be handled that way.

[4] Or, as the bumper sticker puts it, "Dear God, protect me from your supporters!"

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dox^2

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dox^2
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"There are risks and costs to a program of action. But they are far less than the long-range risks and costs of comfortable inaction." John F. Kennedy

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